Episode #169: Reflections on Half our Lives On-line (and Half Offline)


This week, we’re taking a nostalgic journey. We’re speaking about life earlier than and after the Web and our experiences as early influencers.

We’re additionally sharing our e-book report for Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert.

You could find the podcast posts archive right here.

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Present Notes

Our profession synopsis:

  • Began running a blog within the early 2000s
  • Began A Stunning Mess in 2007
  • Owned two classic shops for 5 years 
  • Received a e-book deal primarily based on the weblog
  • Started running a blog full time

What we miss from the very early section of running a blog: 

  • How pure the early weblog matters have been.
  • Not having to have a relentless presence on social media.

When did influencer change into an official phrase/job?

  • For us, it was within the late 2000s, nevertheless it relies on every particular person.

Favourite web sites that stand the take a look at of time: 

What are the professionals and cons of running a blog then vs. now? 


Then: Simpler to get followers and fewer aggressive.
Now: Simpler to become profitable and extra instruments.


Then: Having to be taught all the pieces the laborious method.
Now: Issues are at all times altering.

How will your experiences change the way you strategy the Web with your individual youngsters?

Elsie: Delay so long as doable and be trustworthy.
Emma: Delay and let her youngsters be bored.

What’s the cringiest factor you shared earlier than you knew the Web was ceaselessly?

Elsie: Venting 
Emma: Speaking about previous boyfriends

Do you ever fear about maintaining with technological advances?

No, as a result of we keep open to vary and are usually not afraid to ask dumb questions.

How do your family and friends really feel about you being Web well-known?

They don’t care and we actually aren’t well-known.

Did you may have Web boyfriends?


-We point out Brunch with Babs on Instagram and Masterclass

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Episode 169 Transcript:

Elsie: You’re listening to The Stunning Mess Podcast, your cozy consolation pay attention. This week we’re taking a nostalgic journey. We’re speaking about life earlier than and after the web, and our experiences as early influencers. We’re additionally sharing our e-book report for Massive Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert. That is one in every of my favourite topics. I really feel like we have been born in one of the vital fascinating occasions in historical past as a result of we have been the final era of kids who have been raised utterly off the web. We didn’t have a house laptop till I believe I used to be in highschool once we bought it ish. I believe it was possibly like AOL Web was the type of factor that used your private home’s cellphone line. So in the event you picked up the cellphone, which there have been no cell telephones by the way in which, in the event you picked up the cellphone and somebody was utilizing the web, it was like, zzzzzzz, that sort of vibe. We had very restricted entry to the web. There additionally wasn’t rather a lot to do on the web. I might go on intention and discuss to love two individuals from my church or no matter, two little boys. And that was about it. Have you learnt what I imply? And it’s like, how’s your day? How’s your day? What are you doing? Okay, bye. It was not a really lively house for me and we went from that. I didn’t have a cellphone till I used to be an grownup, I used to be out of faculty. And the way previous have been you if you bought your first? 

Emma: I believe I had one in highschool, nevertheless it didn’t have web. It was identical to you might name. I don’t even suppose it had texting. 

Elsie: No. I keep in mind particularly texting was like once I was 23, cuz I keep in mind when it was new. So there are such a lot of issues that change. It’s truly very wild to mirror on. Smartphones are an enormous one. I bought the very first model of the iPhone and I used to be so happy with it. I’ve by no means been happy with any piece of tech in my life and I swear to God it couldn’t do something. Like apps weren’t even a factor but. It was just about an iPod that was additionally a cellphone and I used to be identical to, that is so cool. I can simply hearken to the postal service all day, on my cellphone. And take actually, actually, actually low-quality photos. Like we had no concept that in simply 10 years that we’d have eight picture apps. And that additionally cellphone pictures would change into for a lot of functions, simply nearly as good as digicam pictures, which is mind-blowing. And for me, just like the invention of FaceTime, I’m an enormous FaceTimer. Yeah, I like it. It simply makes me really feel like we’re dwelling sooner or later each single time as a result of once we have been youngsters, each film had like some model of FaceTime and that was like the long run. And I really feel like that’s the one factor that basically got here by way of. It was simply because it was predicted to be. Additionally the invention of digital cameras. I’ve talked about earlier than, my first enterprise was attempting to be a marriage photographer in my early twenties and I shot virtually all the pieces on movie, which is so terrifying now and laborious to think about. Nevertheless it truly took a very long time for digital cameras to rise as much as the extent of a movie digicam, and at first, it simply wasn’t there. So yeah, just about all tech that you can imagine has modified a lot. And it’s simply enjoyable. I attempted to clarify to my youngsters the opposite day that we watched the identical TV exhibits each morning as a result of that was what was on at a sure time and you might solely watch One Alternative. After which we had videotapes of sure cartoons and ours have been like recorded from television and we additionally had this VHS tape of a carnival cruise ship, like an advert of attempting to get you to take a carnival cruise. And to at the present time I’ve it like virtually memorized as a result of we watched it so many occasions. I truly wanna know in the event that they nonetheless have it, as a result of I might love to observe it one final time. However, clearly just like the world has modified a lot and all millennial individuals can relate to this to some extent as a result of to some extent there’s an enormous span of ages for millennial individuals, however no less than the web was nonetheless creating if you have been a baby. In the event you had it in your house, it nonetheless in all probability wasn’t as a lot of an impact as it’s on youngsters now. We’re simply gonna mirror on the variations after which additionally simply how breaking loopy it’s that we turned web personalities. So I simply must say upfront, I bought a number of messages yesterday saying you shouldn’t use the phrase influencer. Like individuals have a factor with the phrase influencer. And the rationale why I say it’s as a result of it’s simply frequent terminology proper now. And I don’t care. And I simply suppose nobody ought to care. Who cares? So let’s simply not let that be a factor. I get it that the phrase has a little bit little bit of a mocking tone if you concentrate on it in a sure method as a result of it’s a little bit foolish, however on the identical time, it’s fairly freaking correct to what it’s attempting to speak. 

Emma: I consider myself as a blogger and I believe individuals on YouTube consider themselves as vloggers or YouTubers. However I really feel like saying influencer is one solution to embody everybody. So for me, it’s, as an alternative of claiming in the event you weblog or your vlog, otherwise you’re on Instagram, I may say that each time, however I really feel like that’s sort of tedious and annoying and I really feel like the very best phrase, no less than proper now, that I may consider is an influencer and it consists of everybody who may be doing any of these items.

Elsie: I get it, why it’s not the right time period, but in addition who cares? And I stand by that. I don’t care. So we’re simply gonna say it and we’re simply not gonna care. And I believe that it’s like maintaining with the altering terminology and the entire many modifications is part of our job. It’s an enormous a part of our job. You can’t do what we do and resist change. It’s a crucial half. I needed to first earlier than we get into it clarify, so we grew up within the pre-internet world and I name it the journal period the place it was like magazines have been freaking all the pieces. In the event you needed to get impressed in the event you needed to examine a well-known particular person in the event you needed to know what was cool. I might head to Barnes and Noble and get a Frappuccino and browse magazines and that was for a very long time. Even in my early twenties, it was like that. I didn’t begin utilizing the web as a every day software till I used to be about 25 years previous, which is difficult to imagine now. Everybody was asking what our intention title was, like AOL Immediate Messenger, I believe is intention the identical factor and I don’t keep in mind mine. Do you keep in mind? 

Emma: I don’t suppose I ever had that. I actually was not towards it, I simply didn’t get into social media till it was actually a factor and well beyond the time to start. I don’t know why, simply chat rooms and issues like that by no means appealed to me. I believe cuz I’m such a loner. So I principally use the web for getting issues like buying or trying issues up on Wikipedia or stuff like that, schoolwork stuff. I did have a MySpace, I did have. However I didn’t get a Fb as a result of I used to be like, nicely I have already got MySpace and so they appear to be the identical factor. It didn’t even happen to me that was an enormous deal. I don’t know. 

Elsie: Seems they’re not the identical factor. Okay, so yeah, fast profession synopsis. So we began running a blog within the early two 1000’s. I don’t even know what 12 months. I believe we began a Stunning Mess in 2008 or 2007. 

Emma: I believe you began in 2007. Yeah. 

Elsie: Yeah, so this was nonetheless within the MySpace period after which after that, we had our classic retailer period, which lasted some time, like 5 years. I had two completely different shops and I considered myself as a retailer proprietor and my weblog is only a solution to promote that. I didn’t consider myself as a blogger in the direction of possibly nearer to the tip of our classic retailer period once we began. And this occurred naturally, it wasn’t intentional, however our weblog began to earn more cash than our retailer, which actually wasn’t laborious to do. And we bought provided a e-book deal and we bought a literary agent primarily based on our weblog. In order that for me was the purpose once I knew that there was extra of a profession future in running a blog than there was in proudly owning an area retailer for us, which I had not recognized earlier than that. After which after that, we had many alternative phases of early running a blog. I really feel like we sort of tried all the pieces and possibly we nonetheless sort of do. We had our massive staff period the place we like tried to rent an enormous staff and we have been identical to new cash infants. We had success shortly, however then we simply had to determine what to do with it and that’s actually laborious. And searching again now, I want I might’ve had a mentor and we did a little bit bit, however not as a lot as possibly we wanted. Then 10 years later we’re nonetheless running a blog and we’re nonetheless doing it day by day. Lots of people who we began off with have retired or stop or stopped doing it, and there are nonetheless many individuals who we begin off with who’re nonetheless doing it to at the present time. So we’re one of many remaining early influencers, I prefer to say. We haven’t moved on to larger and higher issues. We’ve truly tried 100 various things within the meantime, and I nonetheless really feel like our weblog is without doubt one of the extra sustainable components of our enterprise. 

Emma: Yeah, and likewise I believe for each of us, we simply actually take pleasure in running a blog. It offers us an area to create and write and promote issues like all these completely different actions and we will do it as a lot as we would like or as little as we would like. And it’s enjoyable to have completely different areas and mediums for issues. 

Elsie: So lots of people wish to know what we miss concerning the early section of running a blog. I personally don’t miss rather a lot, however I do miss a few issues. I believe the early section of running a blog could be very, I believe something that’s over now tends to get romanticized. The place you solely keep in mind the nice issues about it. However as somebody who did it in early running a blog, I had a number of monetary hardship and I used to be not but at a degree the place I had any sort of monetary safety. So, I simply sort of remembered that, like balancing, the identical wants and needs that a big web viewers has on you, however with out the monetary safety. It’s tougher. So for me, I consider it as worse, however I believe the issues I miss about it are, I miss how pure the early running a blog matters and issues like that, it may simply be so small. We may simply submit, I assume it’s nonetheless the identical stuff you submit now although, however I don’t know. I believe you might take the weekend off, go someplace you didn’t ever have to clarify the place you have been, what you have been doing. You would simply type of disappear nonetheless with out social media, which I beloved.

Emma: Oh yeah, so that you miss disappearing trigger yeah, that’s in all probability the primary factor I miss about simply not having a cellphone is typically, I don’t know, it offers me a little bit bit of hysteria when persons are like texting me and I’m on the fitness center or at some sort of appointment getting my hair carried out and I can’t maintain my cellphone for the time being or one thing. I simply really feel you’re a little bit bit anticipated to at all times reply the cellphone or be out there, and the reality is typically you’re simply not. 

Elsie: Yeah, I miss the power to vanish, that was cool. So, When did influencer change into an official phrase or job? I believe that query is difficult to reply. I might say the phrase influencer is new from the previous few years, however when it turned an official job, I believe simply relies on every particular person. For us, it was within the late two 1000’s that we began to have a paycheck that was common and it was like our essential earnings. It occurred quite shortly as soon as it did in our scenario. Truly, I believe that the massive magic e-book report had a lot good recommendation about like, don’t stop your job and identical to there’s rather a lot I needed to speak about for that in a while. However I believe that folks focus a lot on the quitting your job a part of it and I’m not gonna lie, that is the reality, it’s nonetheless a job. Perhaps it’s simpler and possibly you prefer it higher, and possibly it’s a extra fulfilling job, nevertheless it’s nonetheless having a job. It’s not, not having a job.

Emma: Yeah, I believe typically individuals consider it such as you’re in early retirement or one thing. And I believe you might run it that method. I assume for me, I at all times view it otherwise as a result of I’m the kind of one who my entire life, even once I was in highschool, I’ve at all times sort of cobbled collectively my earnings from completely different areas.

Elsie: I nonetheless suppose that lots of people don’t contemplate influencing an official profession. It’s like you may’t go to highschool for it, and it’s nonetheless in all probability a job that many alternative dad and mom would discourage, and possibly rightfully so. I don’t know. I don’t even know whether it is an official job nonetheless to at the present time, I assume. 

Emma: I pay taxes, so I’d say it’s. 

Elsie: Okay, subsequent query. What have been your favourite web sites that stood the take a look at of time? I beloved this one, just like the web sites you visited. Okay, so I do keep in mind all of the blogs I visited within the early days, and the one ones that also submit now to at the present time are Oh Pleasure and Younger Home Love.

Emma: I additionally learn these blogs and have for an extended, very long time. And I might additionally add to the record two bloggers that I learn ceaselessly, like earlier than I used to be ever even a blogger, Pleasure The Baker and Smitten Kitchen, we’re nonetheless running a blog too.

Elsie: Oh my God. Wait, I wanna add additionally Cupcakes and Cashmere as a result of I do love Emily and he or she is unquestionably from the olden days. What are the professionals and cons of running a blog then versus now? Getting straight to it, I don’t suppose there’s something about running a blog that was higher within the early days than it’s now, apart from possibly it was simpler to ascertain followers. Perhaps it was much less aggressive, however why does it matter if it’s much less aggressive in the event you can’t make any cash from it in any respect? Within the early days of running a blog, have been very, very, very small and gradual quantities of cash. So I believe it’s a lot better now, there’s way more alternative. I at all times say that folks beginning now have a bonus and so they don’t appear to see it. Folks don’t appear to see it that method as a result of they suppose that the one method is to be like an early adopter. It’s not the one method individuals begin and have a fast rise with laborious work on a regular basis. Each single 12 months individuals will try this, and it’s at all times doable. 

Emma: I might say the one factor higher again then was there was much less competitors. And that’s actually the one factor. And to your level, I believe there have been rather a lot fewer methods to become profitable and rather a lot fewer established methods to become profitable and rather a lot fewer instruments. So all the pieces was simply tougher to do. And now it’s method higher and simpler. I’d quite change into a blogger now than again then, but in addition that’s simply what occurred. And so right here we’re. It’s not like I knew what we have been lacking out on. It’s not like we knew, oh, sooner or later there’ll be method simpler methods to perform all of those duties that you simply’re doing now. So manually, it’s not like we knew that, so it wasn’t an enormous burden again then. However trying again, I’m like, oh man, I can’t imagine we simply get to press a button and this makes a recipe card, that is wonderful. Again then there was identical to nothing. We might’ve needed to construct that from scratch or one thing. 

Elsie: I agree. I believe it’s so a lot better now, however I do suppose that there have been disadvantages to being an early adopter as a result of we discovered a number of issues the laborious method and we did a number of issues incorrect at first. Then we created habits and we even skilled success for doing issues the incorrect method, nevertheless it wasn’t in like a long-lasting method. So we’ve needed to reeducate ourselves a number of occasions by now. 

Emma: Which I believe is peaks to your level of like how it’s important to keep open to vary. As a result of as an trade modifications, you want to have the ability to be taught new tips or change your habits or know that simply because that labored final 12 months, that doesn’t imply it’s gonna work this 12 months and also you’re gonna should be open to doing one thing completely different. 

Elsie: Sure, completely. Ugh, this one’s sort of a private query. How will your experiences change the way you strategy the web together with your youngsters? I might simply say that I’m gonna delay it for so long as doable, and this type of goes with identical to my common parenting model, however I imagine in absolute honesty, so I wish to educate my youngsters preemptively what to anticipate in conditions like that. I don’t imagine that I can shelter them from what the web is.

Emma: Yeah, and sort of the identical factor. I’ll positively delay a smartphone or social media so long as doable, however partly, everyone knows there’s like unfavourable results that may occur due to these issues to our vanity, to the way in which that we work together with others. There are additionally some optimistic issues that may occur. However to me, the principle factor that I really feel like a present I used to be given in my childhood was boredom. And each time I used to be bored, I might make issues or I might play and I simply wanna guarantee that I give that reward to my son, boredom. And I believe the web can very simply take that from you cuz there’s a lot on there. You don’t ever must be bored. There’s a lot content material to eat and issues to learn, and movies to observe, and so forth and so forth, and that’s cool.I really like the web, but in addition I believe being bored is admittedly wholesome and good, particularly if you’re younger as a result of it makes you create, it makes you remedy that drawback by entertaining your self and determining that you simply like portray otherwise you wanna be taught guitar or no matter it’s that you simply’re into.

Elsie: I really like that. Yeah, I believe we’re very aligned in that cuz each actually recognize the way in which we have been raised. . Okay, what’s the cringest factor that you simply shared earlier than you knew the web was ceaselessly? Cringest factor. God, I can’t even say it, so I’m not gonna reply this. What about you? 

Emma: I actually don’t know. I assume once I shared boyfriends who I’m clearly not with anymore, however I don’t suppose that’s actually that massive of a deal. I don’t know, I’m undecided what could be essentially the most cringy. There are many pictures that I’m like I want that wasn’t on-line.

Elsie: I assume I’ve one. I believe I might type of vent on-line once I was youthful, in my twenties, I might vent about issues from my day as a result of individuals have been at all times like, relatable. And I believed that was what they meant. And I didn’t perceive that being relatable on-line will not be the identical factor as being relatable to your mates. I imagine in studying issues the laborious method I settle for it. I don’t suppose I may reside my life on this mind every other method. 

Emma: Yeah, I simply do dumb issues typically and I in all probability will do extra of them sooner or later. They’re not even all in my previous and I settle for that.

Elsie: I even have a kinda related angle towards parenting. It’s like being keen to apologize is an enormous a part of it, being keen to confess if you’re incorrect. I believe makes you a greater particular person. And I believe it’s the identical factor being on-line, we’re gonna make errors. Do you ever fear about not with the ability to sustain with expertise developments? I really like this query and I’ve thought of this. So brunch with Babs and the entire individuals over, I don’t know, 60, who’ve made careers for themselves in social media particularly Instagram and TikTok. I believe they’re a captivating, actually inspiring group of individuals as a result of they grew up with out the web for method longer than we did, and so they have a far more fascinating perspective than now we have concerning the modifications and the way they discovered them. And I truly don’t fear about with the ability to sustain with developments as a result of I believe that if I’m decided to remain open to vary and I’m not ashamed to ask for assist and ask silly questions. I believe that’s an enormous a part of it.

Emma: I’d say that’s among the best issues we’ve carried out in our entire profession, and particularly with regard to the web, will not be being afraid to look silly or to ask for assist or say, I don’t understand how this works. Might somebody educate it to me? And simply being open to that as a result of, yeah, issues do change on a regular basis. I at all times inform individuals too I’m actually not a techy particular person, which might be bizarre to individuals if that I work on-line and that I personal an app firm. But in addition when you concentrate on it, I believe it is smart, a lot of the content material we make, we use issues like scorching glue and weapons. I’m not a very techy particular person, so I do get anxious when new issues come out and I don’t know methods to use them, or I attempt to use it and I can’t, and I’m like, I don’t know methods to work together with this on my cellphone in any respect. And I really feel like an previous particular person. So I believe I’ve that worry like anybody, however I additionally don’t suppose it needs to be one thing that holds you again. I truly suppose it’s like actually regular. And simply part of life and part of dwelling in a world the place expertise’s altering so shortly and a lot. If Babs can do it, we will too

Elsie: Precisely. I’m not afraid to ask for assist. And in addition I don’t really feel pressured to attempt or do each single factor on social media. I skipped them on a regular basis and anybody can, it’s our selection. It’s like exploring it and being open to it, see if it may be enjoyable. See if it will probably profit you and if not, then that’s advantageous. You recognize, simply skip it or no matter. Any tales of individuals not accepting your profession as a quote? “Actual job”. Do now we have a narrative or two about this? That is humorous as a result of my entire life, like the principle factor that folks have bullied me for, has modified over time, which is fascinating, I might say each 5 years. However the very first thing, the primary unique factor for my first 5 years was individuals saying that I used to be a OneNote and that I may solely do one factor. I blew it out of the water, I might say in my profession, don’t you suppose? 

Emma: Yeah. I might say she will be able to’t do one factor, it’s unimaginable. That’s my criticism. 

Elsie: However yeah, no, I might say simply common sexism each contractor who’s come into our residence, mainly my complete life is like, the place’s your husband? And what does he do for a dwelling? And it doesn’t look like anybody ever considers the chance that I’m like a breadwinner, and I believe I’m a bread baker and a breadwinner. So yeah, I believe that’s for ladies and girls who personal companies, influencers, everybody, it’s a traditional factor. It’s such as you’re at all times gonna be diminished in your accomplishments or persons are gonna Be like, oh, that’s cute, and also you’re like, yeah, truly nice. 

Emma: I do suppose if you work in an rising trade and likewise I believe artists get this like inventive individuals get this. Folks will usually mistake your profession for a pastime, and it’s comprehensible as a result of it in all probability was your pastime earlier than it turned your profession, however it will probably really feel a little bit bit diminishing and irritating when individuals appear to only not wanna acknowledge the chance that you simply may make some huge cash at this factor that could possibly be a pastime, nevertheless it’s not. I believe the older I get the extra I don’t care. I don’t really feel like I’ve something to show. I believe once I was youthful I needed individuals to know that I’ve a job. I’m not simply somebody whose dad and mom gave them some huge cash or somebody whose husband helps them. I make my very own cash and I at all times have and I’m actually happy with that and I believe I used to care rather a lot about that and now I don’t actually care as a lot. I’m like you may suppose no matter you need. In the event you wanna imagine that I don’t make any cash and I simply am a stay-at-home pastime lady, that’s advantageous. You may imagine that I don’t care. It’s like no matter to me now. 

Elsie: I believe that’s good recommendation for people who find themselves beginning off in our subject in a associated subject is to not anticipate individuals to take your job critically and simply are you able to be okay with accepting that typically individuals received’t as a result of I do suppose it’s more healthy in the event you can simply settle for that and never care. How did your family and friends react to you changing into web well-known? I needed to reply this query as a result of I imply this actually, nobody cares. Nobody cared. Nobody cares. Nobody has ever cared. I believe that individuals who observe us on the web at sure occasions have handled us like we have been extra well-known than we actually are, and that’s true. However no, nobody cares, nobody.

Emma: There have been moments the place I’ve been with members of the family or a buddy and somebody will come as much as me and be like, Hey, I learn your weblog. And that doesn’t occur fairly often, nevertheless it has occurred. And I believe a few of these moments abruptly my member of the family I’m with or my buddy, they’re like, oh as a result of they know what I do, nevertheless it doesn’t happen to them that folks learn our weblog or they know individuals learn our weblog, however they don’t give it some thought being colliding with actual life. And so I believe these are moments the place I do really feel kinda well-known. I’m like, yeah, I don’t even know that particular person, they simply learn my weblog. Nevertheless it’s fairly uncommon and probably not something that’s massive. We’re actually not very well-known. 

Elsie: That’s true. We’re not being modest, we’re being correct. So may you return to no web now? And if that’s the case, do you suppose you might switch your profession into one thing equal, an alternate profession sort of factor? Lots of people are asking in the event you didn’t do that, what would you do? I believe that we may do different issues. I believe I may help myself with out being on the web. And I’ve occasions once I fantasize about being utterly offline sooner or later, however at this present second, that’s not one thing that I really feel like I would like or need. I really feel like my boundaries are adequate that I can reside a wholesome life and be on-line indefinitely.

Emma: Yeah, I believe so too, I take pleasure in it. I additionally may do different issues. I believe I’ve at all times been destined to kinda do my very own factor or personal a enterprise or be part of a enterprise with somebody such as you as a result of it’s laborious to think about myself simply working someplace, company. I believe I may excel at it considerably in that I actually care, I’m an individual who cares. I at all times tried to get good grades at school, for instance, I’m not a partier, straight-A sort. I didn’t get straight A’s, despite the fact that I attempted. However I did nicely and I believe once I’m attempting to do an excellent job, it’s one thing I can do fairly nicely. So I believe I could possibly be profitable in that, I simply can’t think about myself doing it, and I’ve by no means actually had any sort of conventional job, so it’s laborious to essentially think about. And I believe typically I’ve had pals ask me like, what in the event you needed to go apply for jobs at the moment? Do you suppose you might even try this? And I’m like, probably not. I believe my ability set is so unusual at this level cuz it’s in so many alternative areas. I don’t suppose I wouldn’t have the strongest resume in some methods. I simply don’t actually fear about it cuz I don’t actually wish to work for another person. I by no means have carried out it, so it’s simply kinda a international factor to me.

Elsie: Truthfully, I’m simply gonna say, I do suppose that you simply’re incorrect and I believe that your resume could be excellent in the event you selected to.

Emma: It might be bizarre. They’d be like, have you learnt methods to use Excel? I’d be like, barely.

Elsie: I do have the, how laborious may or not it’s jean? However I do suppose that I may apply for a high-level job and get it, I do. I don’t know as a result of now we have a number of abilities, nevertheless it doesn’t matter. I Don’t have FOMO about different careers. I really feel like I nonetheless have an opportunity to do all the pieces I wish to do in my life and begin new issues and be taught new issues. So I don’t have any FOMO in any respect. That is a simple one to reply. Did you may have web boyfriends? Sure and sure. Carried out, okay. 

Emma: I assume so. I don’t know. Such as you met somebody on-line. 

Elsie: Yeah, you had an web boyfriend, didn’t you? Somebody who initially met on the web. 

Emma: Yeah, I believe so. I sort of met him by way of your web boyfriend. I believe everybody meets individuals on-line now, proper? I didn’t have any apps.

Elsie: A few of my bridesmaids have been individuals who I met from commenting on my weblog. I believe lots of people in my life are, most individuals are individuals I met on-line. Most of my pals are long-distance pals. How do you navigate emotions of being a sellout? I wrestle with this. So to start with, I’m gonna assume this particular person’s query is totally real and never a jab at us. So don’t fear, we’re not mad. I might say that since we began doing what we do at a time when adverts turned a factor, in real-time for us. So we did must navigate the primary indignant wave of backlash that folks have been doing them in any respect. Then the numerous iterations of individuals attempting to determine and be taught and nonetheless learn to do it in a method that’s real and never the best-case situation, I assume. So actually, that is one a part of being an influencer that I really feel like we’ve at all times been fairly real about. The manufacturers that we actually, actually don’t wanna work with, we’ve at all times mentioned no to and possibly there are some individuals which are in a grey space a little bit bit, I may say that, however I’ve by no means actually felt like a sellout. I actually can’t say I’ve felt it however I’ve been accused of it. However I actually, don’t really feel like I’ve ever felt like I used to be a sellout as a result of I really feel we’re incomes cash in a method that’s kinda good. 

Emma: I’m additionally assuming that this particular person’s coming at it with, this can be a real query and never a jab, however I’ll say I at all times discover any such query type of ridiculous as a result of I simply suppose that it’s only a solution to put someone down, that’s all it’s. And it’s cool in the event you contemplate your self a advantageous artist and also you solely become profitable by promoting to museums or one thing, that’s great. However I’m sorry, your privilege is displaying. A few of us simply must discover a solution to make a dwelling and I’m happy with how I’ve carried out it. I take pleasure in my work. I’m happy with what I put out. And in the event you contemplate it promoting out, I believe that’s your drawback, not mine, as a result of I’m glad to do what I do to pay my payments and help my household. And I’ve simply at all times sort of felt that method. I believe it’s simply one other method that folks put down sure artwork or sure work, identical to how individuals say it’s cute that you’ve this enjoyable little pastime, or, oh, you should be a sellout as a result of your work isn’t X, Y, Z, and I believe it’s simply one other solution to sort of belittle and put issues down. And in the event you’re doing that to your self, which may be the place this particular person’s feels like their query’s coming from is that they’re doing it to themselves. You must cease, you don’t want to inform your self that story. You may simply be happy with the work that you simply’re making and the cash that you simply’re making from it, which you could simply full cease proper there. 

Elsie: That’s true, you may imagine no matter you wish to imagine about your self, and I imagine that I’m an artist like Picasso.

Emma: There you go. Then you might be and doubtless in his day individuals thought he was a sellout, so I don’t know, it’s simply ridiculous. 

Elsie: Oh my God, let’s have Picasso on our podcast. He’ll in all probability must be a Halloween episode. And let’s ask him, what did you get for it? And I can’t wait to listen to his solutions as a result of it’s petty. It’s bull and it’s in all probability the very same stuff that persons are nonetheless doing now to our heroes of at the moment. You by no means get handled like that in real-time or no matter. I believe that working with manufacturers is admittedly enjoyable and actually regular and I imagine that we give a number of worth that they will’t discover on different platforms, and that’s why a few of our sponsors have been with us for greater than 5 to 10 years. That’s, that’s a very long time. All proper, so let’s transfer on to the massive Magic e-book report. So Massive Magic is a e-book by Elizabeth Gilbert, and I’ve to say I’ve it listed in my Good Reads as one in every of my favourite books of all time. I believe it’ll in all probability keep there my entire life. Let’s simply first clarify what Massive Magic is about. I don’t imagine that that is going to comprise any spoilers for people who find themselves keen on listening to it. I believe it can in all probability make you extra , however that’s simply my opinion. It’s not a repair. You may’t actually spoil this, are you able to?

Emma: No, no. And in the event you’re not conversant in Elizabeth Gilbert, she’s in all probability most recognized for the e-book Eat, Pray, Love, a film starring Julia Roberts that got here out years and years in the past. However she’s additionally written plenty of different fiction books, and I imagine one other memoir after which this e-book, which is sort of I don’t know if I might name it recommendation. I might name it extra like an extended pep discuss for anybody inventive. However I believe the purpose with that, I’m attempting to say is she’s an writer. However in the event you’re like, I actually need a e-book that’s gonna pop me up creatively, however I’m not into writing, I’m a painter, I do ceramics, or no matter it’s that you simply do. I believe this e-book is definitely nice for anybody inventive, doing inventive work. So in the event you’re on the lookout for a e-book that’s about creativity, possibly you’ve been in a rut, or possibly you identical to to get a pep discuss from time to time, I do. Then I believe that that is one thing you may actually take pleasure in in the event you haven’t listened to it. And I listened to it like Elsie, years and years in the past. I wanna say it was like 2018, and I actually loved re-listening to it. I positively really feel a little bit extra impressed and just a bit extra like, oh yeah, life is filled with this enjoyable, mystical magic if you wish to imagine in the event you wanna have religion and creativity, no matter. And I don’t know, it’s simply thrilling and it, for me, was one thing good within the winter cuz this time of 12 months is kinda uninspiring to me. So I believed it was an excellent re this time of 12 months. 

Elsie: So it’s an important e-book and everybody has to learn it, we insist. It is vitally brief too, and I’ll say Elizabeth Gilbert might be among the best non-fiction authors I’ve heard studying her personal e-book ever. Her studying could be very, very robust. I simply love listening to her voice. So that you’ll additionally love the audiobook in the event you select to try this. And actually, even in the event you hate studying, fake prefer it’s a podcast and it’s virtually the identical factor. You’re gonna like it. So an enormous a part of the e-book is introducing the concept our inventive concepts could possibly be literal dwelling beings. And it’s kinda bizarre, it’s positively woo-woo and at first, it’s the type of factor that might elevate a skeptical forehead, however she offers these tales which are so compelling and I received’t spoil the tales, however that’s one in every of my favourite components of the entire e-book. I’ll say, I cried two occasions whereas placing on my make-up, and listening to this e-book and one in every of them was her first massive magic expertise story, I like it I really like listening to it. The second factor that I really like about this e-book is, okay, in order somebody who didn’t graduate from school, it’s one thing that I’ve at all times had and doubtless at all times will carry with me like a little bit little bit of, I wouldn’t say it causes me self-doubt as a lot because it used to, however it’s a problem, proper? It’s prefer it’s a factor that I really feel is one thing that I’ve to beat quite than a bonus in life.

Emma: That’s your fill-in-the-blank on, all of us have a story in our head that’s like, I’m not adequate as a result of… and yours is, I didn’t end school.

Elsie: And it’s one thing that I do really feel like I kinda missed out on. I’m not keen to do it now. And I perceive I completely may, if I used to be keen to do the work I may go to varsity anytime I needed. And I perceive that’s an possibility, nevertheless it’s not one thing that I’m keen on anymore. So anyway, on this e-book and likewise within the different e-book that we coated, enjoying massive. She actually tries to dispel the concept you want a number of training to do inventive careers, and I discovered it actually useful as a result of I believe that it’s one thing that I’m simply at all times envious of when different persons are classically educated, in artwork or writing or any of the issues that I’m keen on doing. However she could be very convincing that it may provide you with money owed that make your life tougher or it could possibly be an excuse to maintain you from simply beginning the inventive mission is the excuse of like at all times feeling such as you want an increasing number of training. And that’s one thing that I felt inspired by that anybody can begin at any time and also you don’t must do a bunch of preliminary steps beforehand. 

Emma: Yeah. I believe she talks rather a lot about increased training like Elsie’s mentioning, however she does another little pep talks all through the e-book the place primarily I really feel like she’s sort of breaking down the entire thought of like gatekeeping creativity, or in her case, gatekeeping being an writer or being a widely known or well-known writer. Profitable, that’s the phrase I search for, profitable author as a result of that’s one factor that has at all times rubbed me the incorrect method is when individuals do this type of gatekeeping factor the place it’s like, you’re not allowed to make nice music or be a painter, or be a author except you may have an Ivy League diploma otherwise you write any such fiction or no matter. In the event you do pop music, you’re not cool and I’ve at all times disliked that. I simply actually really feel prefer it’s the other of creativity that try to be open to no matter it’s that’s gonna come your method and seize maintain of it and make one thing from it and make the very best factor you may out of your viewpoint and together with your life experiences and the particular person that you’re. And if that’s a pop track or a horny fairy e-book or no matter factor that different individuals may understand as low forehead. I’m doing quotes, air quotes. I simply at all times hate the sort of gatekeeping, artwork is simply this, I simply suppose it’s sort of silly

Elsie: Hear, we’re not 21 years previous. We don’t hearken to these forms of pretend guidelines that don’t apply to us. 

Emma: I believe previous individuals do it too. I don’t suppose it’s simply 21-year-olds. I believe individuals of their true forties, fifties, and sixties do a number of gatekeeping too. And I simply suppose if you hear it, you may go forward and dismiss it. Is anybody on the market listening? I believe it’s not related to you if it’s not related to you. And in the event you wanna make high-brow artwork, make it. However in the event you wanna make low forehead, make it. In the event you wanna go to varsity for artwork, go for it. Take into consideration the debt although. And in the event you don’t wanna go, you may nonetheless be an artist. And I believe that’s a little bit bit what Elizabeth Gilbert’s getting at within the e-book, and I actually like that message as a result of I believe it says Hey, we’re all inventive and we will all make stuff if we would like. 

Elsie: She has a really robust case for like, don’t make artwork your job as a result of that places an excessive amount of stress on it and may scare away your creativity. And that is one thing that I really feel all of us want to listen to. Even these of us who do, like Emma and I, professionally do a inventive profession, however we nonetheless have to guard our creativity by making these little only for enjoyable tasks. And there’s nonetheless a lot that now we have to do. I believe that lots of people by way of the years would say, for the previous 15 years, yearly individuals ask me to have espresso or have a cellphone name or no matter and choose your mind and I at all times know earlier than I even sit down what they’re gonna say, they wish to stop their job, virtually at all times. I believe the concept of quitting your job, is your final aim. I believe it’s good to only imagine Elizabeth Gilbert, imagine us. Consider anybody who’s carried out it, it’s not the final word aim that you simply suppose it’s gonna be. 

Emma: Once I suppose too, alongside these strains, one of many issues I wrote down that I actually beloved within the e-book was she talks rather a lot about being glad and content material if you’re beginning out in your creativity profession and likewise if you’re being rejected. She talks about all of the rejection letters she would get and the way she was serving tables or engaged on a ranch and people have been the issues she did for cash so she may pay her payments and reside her life. However all of the whereas she was writing and getting rejected. However she talks about being actually glad and I assume how happiness to some extent, is a selection that we make. And in addition we will change our viewpoint round issues at occasions. She talks about when she would get a rejection letter, she would view that because the universe hitting a tennis ball again to her facet of the courtroom. So it was now her job simply to hit it proper again, so she would ship out a brand new submission when she would get rejected. And I believe that’s a good way to have a look at setbacks and rejection or moments the place you may have sort of a failure, is to view it as simply the universe is sending the tennis ball to your facet and it’s your job to only ship it proper again. Don’t quit. 

Elsie: I beloved that as nicely. I additionally love the concept of it doesn’t matter what sort of artwork you’re making, contemplating your self a painter or a author or no matter from the primary day, not, I’m attempting to be this, I’m pondering of being this, it’s like you might be doing it simply as a lot as anybody else is doing it ever. 

Emma: A few different issues I beloved from the e-book, she does rather a lot the place she does the personification of like feelings, and creativity. And I believe for her it’s extra of the idea that creativity truly is that this little being, like a genius that comes to go to you. And I really like that concept. Whether or not you imagine it in a literal sense or not I believe is irrelevant. However in a single half she talks about she’s doing personification with feelings and he or she talks about, I’m getting comfy along with her worry and the way she grew up a really fearful youngster. I believe all of us have worry at occasions and he or she talks about how worry will not be a nasty factor. It’s not an adversary at occasions that may preserve us secure. We’ve in all probability all had these moments the place our radar goes off and we depart a sure space or one thing occurs the place it’s it retains us. So worry will not be a nasty factor, however she has this little speech that she offers her worry, she talks to it and he or she says I take care of you and also you’re welcome to return right here and provides us your concepts, however you might be by no means going to have the ability to make choices or drive the automotive. She simply units these boundaries with these feelings or these components of herself and I really like that cuz I like the concept of accepting who we’re absolutely, but in addition recognizing that doesn’t imply that, let’s say worry needs to be the driving power of our life. As a result of I believe we will all agree that if we let worry be the driving power of our life, we’re in all probability by no means going to attempt for something massive. We’re by no means going to take an opportunity on like assembly new individuals or altering our profession if we needed to and even I believe a number of time I had a number of worry round changing into a mom as a result of I used to be like, what if I suck at it? What if I don’t love my youngster? And if I had let these fears be the driving power, I in all probability wouldn’t have my lovely son now. I simply suppose you may’t, it’s important to set boundaries but in addition settle for these components of your self. And I actually love her tackle that and the way in which that she does it and the way in which she explains it within the e-book. I believed it was actually useful. After which additionally she does that with creativity, speaking about how inspiration will come to go to us, and it’s our job to seize maintain of it and assist it have an actual life. So, you probably have a e-book thought, you need to write it and let that concept change into an actual e-book or you probably have an thought for portray, you need to paint it. After which that concept will get to change into actual in the actual world. And we’re identical to a vessel that this concept is gonna circulate by way of, that sort of factor. One factor I really like about that entire idea is, I really feel prefer it makes inventive work much less about us, much less about ourselves, and extra about communion with one thing past ourselves, one thing greater I’m not a very spiritual particular person, however I do love the concept of being related to the world by way of one thing that does matter to me, which for me could be creativity.

Elsie: I preferred her quote when she mentioned, my inventive concepts should be a very powerful factor on the earth to me, and likewise not matter in any respect. I believe that may be a mind-bender a little bit. I imagine that it’s like it’s important to dedicate your self utterly to this inventive course of and stay dedicated and stay open, but in addition perceive that it’s not the tip of the world, it’s not that massive of a deal. As a result of I believe lots of people can drive, myself included, drive themselves loopy, eager to make one particular thought profitable when actually, Emma and I like to hearken to success tales and other people, how I bought began tales. And in the event you hearken to the tales again and again, you’ll quickly be taught that lots of people discovered success once they least anticipated it by staying open and attempting various things, not by having this one concept that they have been obsessive about their complete life and so they have been rejected 150 occasions and the hundred 51st time it turned a bestseller and that’s a little bit bit extra uncommon. So I like the concept if we permit the universe to information us and keep open and simply attempt issues, simply attempt all the pieces that’s fascinating. We’ll discover our place extra naturally and we don’t must power it. So one last item I had down for Massive Magic is the story of a lady named Winifred who bought keen on a complete new topic when she was 80 years previous and have become a whole knowledgeable by the point she was 90 years previous. And that is my long run, the primary most essential factor about who I wanna be in my golden years is the entire by no means cease studying stuff that’s so essential to me. I simply wish to be beginning one thing new till I die. I wanna unfold the excellent news about that. I believe that it’s such a great way to remain open to the world for one, to maintain your self stunned and to only preserve experiencing issues that you simply by no means thought you’ll be keen on like 100 occasions in your life you will be obsessive about one thing that you simply by no means thought you’ll be keen on. What a ravishing expertise.

Emma: Yeah, and I believe too, it will probably assist with preserving your ego in examine, which all of us wanna suppose we’re proper about all the pieces, or we all know all the pieces. And I believe lifelong studying is a good way to remind your self that you simply don’t know all the pieces. And that’s okay and that’s good. 

Elsie: Everybody ship us a narrative you probably have an enormous magic expertise and don’t fear, if it’s not this 12 months, if it’s like 5 years from now, nonetheless ship it to me. I wanna hear them ceaselessly. Okay. So we shall be again subsequent week with a Consolation Rewatch episode for the traditional Star-Studded film, Twilight. So we’ll see you subsequent week.